Alfonso Cuarón Examines The Language of Cinema & Television

Once that I finish a film, I never see it again.

Television is about killing time.

It's like you're doing a film, but it's just very long.

If I hold the shot, people watching the show

are going to check their messages.

[Samanth laughing]

Wired sat down with the Oscar winning director,

Alfonso Cuaron, to talk about the language of cinema and TV

and how they intersect.

This is The Big Interview.

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Every time I've seen a movie of yours,

I've associated with this feeling

of claustrophobia, I guess,

and whether it's a physical kind of claustrophobia,

like you moving the camera into Sandra Bullock's helmet

in Gravity, or if it's emotional kind of claustrophobia,

the world closing in around you, like in Disclaimer.

And I was wondering if that's a feeling you try to chase

in your projects.

First of all, I apologize for making you feel like that.

It is kind of a dramatic device that's very effective.

Oh, I'm glad.

I'm glad, I guess, but, you know,

it's the first time I even think

I've been confronted with this, so.

Right, right.

Maybe it's a byproduct of what I do, or I did,

but it was not like a conscious decision.

Mm hmm.

Once that I finish a film, I never see it again,

so it's up to the audiences to make a meaning of it.

Is there something uniting all these projects that you.

That I don't know,

but more than anything that's a limitation, I guess.

Oh!

[Alfonso] Yeah, I would think so.

Why would you say that?

Maybe a problem I have

is that I have very eclectic taste in cinema.

[Samanth] Mm hmm.

I grew up loving Poseidon Adventure

or Planet of the Apes or Soylent Green.

[Samanth] All great movies.

I know, they're great, but, same time, I love Bergman,

and I love Tarkovsky, and I love Sokurov.

Most of these filmmakers, what they have in common is

this kind of one same kind of idea

that they keep on developing.

And keep on developing film after film.

You can see everything that unifies Bergman or Fellini,

or even Kurosawa with how diverse his oeuvre is.

And I haven't been able to do that.

I feel, you know, once that I finish a film,

I just want to explore different realms.

That's really interesting that you say

you haven't been able to, because have you tried?

I mean, is it something-

No, I've not even tried? [laughing]

[Samanth] Is it something you even seek?

No, I haven't even tried.

[Samanth] Yeah, exactly.

No, it's, er...

Some films you do because you make conscious choices.

[Samanth] Yeah, yeah.

Some films you...

You do to survive.

Right.

Others, they, like, come out and save your life.

I have to wait for films to come to me.

And anytime that I've been trying to seriously plan

to do a specific film I end up not doing that film

and end up doing something else.

And it's interesting that you mentioned Soylent Green

and Planet of the Apes on the one hand

and Tarkovsky and Bergman on the other, because I think,

this is one of my other theories about you,

is that there's something you do

where you kind of marry the cinematic aesthetic

of Bergman and Tarkovsky,

but you do it with adaptations of material

that might be called mass market almost.

So like, Disclaimer is an interesting case.

It's like a summer beach read, you know,

it's like a thriller.

Children of Men is a PD James book.

Harry Potter is Harry Potter.

The case of PD James.

It was just a one page outline of what the book was about.

And I thought, wow, this is brilliant,

but I already have a film that I wanted to do in my head.

So, in that case, I made the conscious decision

of not reading the book.

[Samanth] Yeah.

Because I didn't want it to sidetrack

from what I was thinking.

And then I've been tempted later on to read the book,

'cause people around me they tell me it's great.

They say it's quite different, but it's really great.

When I did Children of Men, I wanted to understand

the things that were going to form our 21st century.

I mean, everything in Children of Men

seems to be a little relevant these days.

Those things were happening then.

[Samanth] Yeah.

The thing is that we were living

in this kind of bubble before.

[Samanth] Right.

Wow, what happened in Children of Men now is happening.

No, it was happening before.

Difference now is that it's coming closer to our backyard.

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So you mentioned these interesting ways

in which these projects come into your life.

So tell me about Disclaimer.

How did Disclaimer enter your life?

Long time ago, I mean,

I think it's when Renee Knight published it.

She sent me.

I didn't know her, she sent me the manuscript.

I saw a possibility,

but I didn't know how to make it happen as a film.

So time passed and she got in touch saying,

hey, you know, in case you're interested,

the rights are available.

There was a moment that I've been very intrigued about

exploring the long format.

And Episodic TV gives you that opportunity.

I enjoy series.

Many, many, many series.

And all the series that I enjoy have amazing writing,

and amazing acting.

But only a few have kind of a cinematic approach.

But what do you mean here by a cinematic approach?

I'm curious to explore that.

Well, in the worst case,

series are shows that you can watch with your eyes closed.

Okay.

And, by the way, you have a great time.

You can actually be doing things

while you're watching your show.

And that's the value and the amazing strength

that series have taken in terms of the narrative, you know?

And I have to say narratively,

they start doing way more interesting things

than most mainstream American films.

And I was very intrigued.

I wanted to because I have never done anything

overtly narrative.

Yeah, 'cause I've noticed that even in Gravity

or Children of Men there's no tendency to give

what they call exposition, you know?

To explain, for example, why the human race is infertile,

or what happens in zero gravity.

I mean, you just let, I guess, the emotion lead first.

Is that what you mean by sort of overtly narrative?

[Alfonso] Yes. Okay.

The principle of film is time.

How those images flow in time and what they convey

and all the emotions that they convey in time.

In order to do that, you have to surrender to that.

And certain films, when you spend time,

it's all about the experience itself of time

and the silence of it, you know,

and the space between time.

In Hitchcock is the perfect example, is the suspense.

You know, you are so aware of time,

because of the ticking clock that is going on.

Mm hmm.

Hitchcock says, I don't care about the content.

You know, I really don't care.

I care about the form and the style.

That's Hitchcock's point of view, you know,

but I'm just saying that to exemplify

how the language in cinema has a greater value

and a greater weight

in the end experience of a film.

Yeah, yeah. You know?

Television, on the other hand, is about killing time.

And I'm not saying all of them,

but many series they need to keep on moving

just the narrative forward, you know, constantly.

But even doing this show, I learned,

there were moments in which I realized, wow,

if this was a film I probably couldn't get away with this.

[Samanth] Mm hmm, mm hmm.

But I just know that if I hold the shot here,

people watching this show are going to check their messages.

[Samanth laughing]

You know what I mean?

Right, right.

In many ways, conventional narrative,

it's all about...

It's like the enemy of time.

Keep the flow, don't even be aware of time.

[Samanth] Right.

If it's a good story, good narrative sentence,

one hour pass and you didn't realize that.

[Samanth] Yeah.

You know, that it was over.

Yeah.

I never done anything that this narrative.

You know, like a strong narrative impulse.

And I was very intrigued about doing it.

I find it a big challenge.

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There was this moment in Y Tu Mama Tambien

when the camera moves out of the car,

where the three people are there,

and there's some kind of police and crime activity,

and you kind of pan to that and you come back into the car,

just to show, though,

that there's a much richer world out there.

The important thing in most of the films that I do,

I'm very concerned about the relationship

between the character and the environment.

[Samanth] Right.

You know, it's always the clash between the two.

In Y Tu Mama Tambien it was a byproduct of that as well.

You know, it's like, well, these guys

are in their little stupid drama.

The bubble, yeah.

And they're cruising through a greater reality

that is around them that they're oblivious.

There are other filmmakers, they do that in an amazing way,

because the characters may leave

and the camera just stays there with the environment,

for you to experience that environment without any action.

You know, in Y Tu Mama Tambien that example,

there's an action going on.

[Samanth] Yes, that's right.

And many times there's no action,

you just partake with the environment.

[Samanth] That's so Perfect Days.

Mm hmm!

Which is Wim Wenders, and that happens a lot.

I mean, the main character

drifts out of the scene a little bit, but the camera stays,

sometimes in an empty house, room.

And it's just like a couple of beats,

but it's just enough and it's very quiet,

but it's a great device.

That expanded time of Wenders

is not fighting with narrative,

it's just another measurement of time.

Yeah.

In TV, you know, there are examples

that you can see that they have done it.

Bergman did it with Scenes from a Marriage

The Kingdom Lars Von Trier.

Fassbinder with Alexanderplatz.

David Lynch with his Twin Peaks.

[Samanth] Twin Peaks, yeah.

Bruno Dumont with Le P'tit Quinquin

And, by the way, don't get me wrong, so many of the shows,

they have amazing cinematic moments.

Right.

But they are not consistent throughout the whole.

It's hard to have a strong, direct point of view

from A to Z.

Mm hmm!

Part of the nature of most shows is that you have

different directors doing different episodes.

The great shows, they know how to do very well.

I think The Bear has amazing examples of that as well.

Or Barry.

[Samanth] Yeah. Yeah.

They establish a style and then different filmmakers come

to honor that style.

[Samanth] Right.

Throughout the whole thing.

And the thing is that when you're directing,

in the case of the irresponsible action that I took

to direct seven episodes, it's like you're doing a film,

but it's just very long.

And what happens is, when you're doing a film,

every decision, you're doing the first frame.

[Samanth] Yeah.

You start thinking about the repercussion

that it's going to have in these other moments.

Mm hmm.

You know?

You great showrunners do that,

because they're very conscientious

that you have to give a follow up.

Alfonso, it's been such a pleasure to speak to you.

Thank you so much.

And I can't wait to watch Disclaimer.

My pleasure, it's been a good conversation.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

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